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Transloading

This page contains references and links to all electronic communications among City staff, and between City staff, Norfolk Southern, and the community regarding the establishment and operation of the Ethanol Transloading Facility. The communications, furnished in response to requests made under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act, cover the period from June 20, 2006 at 8 a.m. to May 29, 2008, at 5 p.m.

E-mail addresses and telephone numbers have been redacted to protect the privacy of residents and of City staff whose home and mobile phone numbers were included on the communications. To contact City officials or staff, please use the links on the left side of this page, or Contact Us.


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Re: Fw: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria


  • To: Adam Thiel
  • Subject: Re: Fw: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria
  • From: Rich Baier/Alex
  • Date: 13 May 2008 14:17:55
  • Bcc:
  • Cc: "City Attorney Ignacio Pessoa" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>; "Jim Hartmann" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>; "Michele Evans" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>

A...Could do that but there main issue is the legality of the permit so before I email them back IP really needs to make sure that we are still in vector alignment.  Rich





Richard J. Baier, P.E.
Director
Transportation and Environmental Services
City of Alexandria
301 King Street
Alexandria, VA 22314
xxx-xxx-xxxx
Fax: xxx-xxx-xxxx



Adam Thiel/Alex

05/13/2008 01:53 PM

To
"City Attorney Ignacio Pessoa" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>, "Rich Baier" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>
cc
"Michele Evans" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>, "Jim Hartmann" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>
Subject
Fw: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria




Is it worth reiterating to NSC that the permit (unless the $10 fee is a hardship) is not a big deal, and will (by designation of the obvious haul route) actually serve to mitigate one source of community angst (namely, 'the trucks will be driving through the neighborhoods')?

Just a thought...

Adam


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Rich Baier
    Sent: 05/13/2008 11:15 AM EDT
    To: "Edwards, John, V" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; Ignacio Pessoa
    Cc: Adam Thiel; "McNeil, Doug" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; Lawson David <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Jordan, A. Gayle" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Webb, Mike" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Chapman, Robin C." <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; Sarah Graham; "Wingo, William B." <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>
    Subject: RE: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria
Thanks for the note---Ignacio Pessoa, the City Atty., has made this interpretation so I will copy him and allow him to address your questions.  Rich





Richard J. Baier, P.E.
Director
Transportation and Environmental Services
City of Alexandria
301 King Street
Alexandria, VA 22314
xxx-xxx-xxxx
Fax: xxx-xxx-xxxx



"Edwards, John, V" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>

05/13/2008 10:47 AM

To
text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting, "Jordan, A. Gayle" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>, text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting, text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting
cc
Lawson David <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>, "McNeil, Doug" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>, "Webb, Mike" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>, "Chapman, Robin C." <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>, "Wingo, William B." <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>
Subject
RE: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria





Mr. Baier:
 
Thank you for your e-mail.  I take the opportunity to respond on behalf of Norfolk Southern.
 
With regard to the city ordinance, unfortunately we read it a bit differently.  We outline many of our thoughts on this issue below.  Perhaps after reviewing this, we could arrange a discussion on this with the City Attorney.  We thank you for your attention to this matter, and look forward to working out any remaining issues.
 
Section 5-2-27 applies to the hauling of:
 
(a)     ?waste materials of any type?
(b)     ?building or construction supplies, materials or equipment? and
(c)     ?dirt, debris or fill of any type.?
 
(Obviously, under this construction, this provision may apply to the construction of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, to the extent it applies to the hauling of ?building or construction supplies, materials or equipment?, and that application is not relevant to any discussion of the hauling of ethanol.)  As I stated below, this section does not apply because it does not fit into any of these categories.  I note that your understanding is that Section 5-2-27 should be read otherwise, so that the word ?materials? would be read as a separate category, and that this category would include ethanol.  We believe this is a fatally flawed interpretation of Section 5-2-27.  In essence, your reading of Section 5-2-27 would have it applying to the hauling of:
 
(a)     ?waste materials of any type?
(b)     ?building or construction supplies?
(c)     ?materials?
(d)     ?equipment? and
(e)     ?dirt, debris or fill of any type.?
 
If that were the reading, and if somehow that listing were allowed to be interpreted to include ethanol, then there would be no limit whatsoever to what Section 5-2-27 applies.  There would be no principled reason to read out of the provision a host of consumer, wholesale and retail ?materials? such as glue, paper and ink cartridges to grocery stores and office supply stores, paint to hobby stores, and helium to party supply stores.  (Even if this was the reading of the provision, which it is not, the section would again apply to certain aspects of the hauling of ?building or construction supplies? and so apply to certain aspects of the construction of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, further making that analogy without significance.)  Some of the haulers of these other non-construction/demolition materials may need to obtain permits (such as those hauling helium ? we are no expert on whether that requires a city permit or not), but certainly the City does not require these haulers to obtain a permit under this section, which is entitled ?Hauling of waste materials, construction materials, etc., prohibited.?
 
Our interpretation of this provision is further reinforced by the additional provisions, and interpretations, found on the City of Alexandria?s website that clearly indicate that the provision really is meant to apply to hauling to and from construction and demolition sites.  Quoted from the following website:  http://alexandriava.gov/tes/info/default.aspx?id456#hauling.
 
?Required when five (5) or more loads of ? building or construction supplies, materials or equipment of any type?.?  And ?No dirt, mud or debris shall be tracked/spilled onto the public right-of-way.?

Hauling
Required when five (5) or more loads of waste materials of any type, building or construction supplies, materials or equipment of any type, or dirt, debris or fill of any type will be hauled into or out of a site within any consecutive thirty (30) day period. No dirt, mud or debris shall be tracked/spilled onto the public right-of-way. The hauling route will be determined by this office. Submit request on
Application for Hauling Permit.
Finally, even if the hauling permit did apply to the facility, which it does not, the ordinance would constitute a permit that is applicable to a railroad facility that, if denied, would have the effect of regulating rail transportation.  
 
John V. Edwards
Senior General Attorney
Norfolk Southern Corporation
Three Commercial Place
Norfolk, VA 23510
xxx-xxx-xxxx
xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx
 




From: text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting [mailto:text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting]
Sent:
Monday, May 12, 2008 6:26 PM
To:
Jordan, A. Gayle; text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting; text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting
Cc:
Lawson David; McNeil, Doug; Webb, Mike; Edwards, John, V
Subject:
Re: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria

 

Thanks for the note and as I  am sending information it is only a cover letter and the ordinance section scanned in and sent on Friday. Per the city attorney the ordinance  section that lists the materials noted below does not contain an exhaustive or exclusive listing. It is an exemplary in nature and it is being applied to projects like the Woodrow wilson bridge and the like. I hope this clarifies. I think the preemption issue is certainly correct outside of the right of way as the city owns its roads outright unlike most  other jurisdictions in the country.



  From: "Jordan, A. Gayle" [xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx]
 Sent:
05/12/2008 05:07 PM AST
 To:
Sarah Graham; Rich Baier; Adam Thiel
 Cc:
Lawson David <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "McNeil, Doug" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Webb, Mike" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Edwards, John, V" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>
 Subject:
RE: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria

 
Hello. I am responding on behalf of Norfolk Southern on the hauler permit and storm water issues which were raised during our Friday afternoon conference call. I do not have all the email addresses of the others on the call from the City so I ask that you forward this response to them.  
 
I have reviewed Section 5-2-27 and don't see how that provision applies to trucks hauling ethanol since ethanol is neither a waste material, construction supply, construction material, construction equipment, dirt, debris nor fill.  
The facility aspect in (d) would also fail on two counts as ethanol tank trucks would not be covered and given the railroad's ICCTA preemption over local permits.  I understand Mr. Baier is going to send me some more information later this week, and we will of course consider what is presented.
 
As for the storm water plan, the state storm water requirements do not apply to this operation. This has been confirmed again with outside counsel. Nonetheless, in a spirit of cooperation Norfolk Southern will prepare a storm water plan for the facility.
 
I understand that Fire Chief Thiel is working up a revised ethanol fire/spill response list and will send us spec and vendor information . With this additional information in hand we will advise as the railroad's position on the 450 truck.    
 
Thank you for forwarding my email to the others.  Gayle Jordan




From: text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting [mailto:text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting]
Sent:
Friday, May 09, 2008 4:27 PM
To:
xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx; text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting
Cc:
text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting
Subject:


Good afternoon,


I send this on Rich Baier's behalf. He will follow with a letter next week.






Sarah Graham
Secretary II
T&ES Administration
City of Alexandria
xxx-xxx-xxxx